Our next event will be at Fox Hollow up in Trinity on Sunday, July 12th. They're a private club that recently started allowing public rounds. All throughout the year they host FSGA and USGA events, and the pro told me the course is in excellent shape.
He also gave us a group rate of $45 plus tax, but our tee time is a little earlier than usual. First group out is 8:30am (the other option was noon and that's no good).
Since this is a Major, I'm not going to force you kids to play the old man (aka: correct) tees. Even though I still truly believe the shorter set-up (ie: Eaglebrook) provides us a better "PGA Tour" experience, where birdies and eagle chances are more prevalent. Instead we'll have a Major set-up with the longest yardage in league history.
The only person I know that's OUT is JW. However, I really don't like assuming any of you are in. Make a comment and let me know your plans.
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The Ryder Cup qualifiers are set. As expected, Darren and Buchert are captains this year. I've already paid for the lodging, so everyone highlighted blue in the registration grid has two weeks to pay me $80. This covers TWO nights up at World Woods (Friday August 21st & Saturday August 22nd). We individually pay for the golf while we're there (Saturday and Sunday rounds).
You can PayPal me $80 at chandler.brown@gmail.com. Just make sure to select the "sending money to family/friends" option. Or you can pay me cash/check in person. After our next event on July 12th... I'm going to open it up to whatever alternates want to join. Pay up now to secure your spot.
Once all 12 people are official we'll host a live draft. It'll be a "snake draft" with Darren getting picks 1, 4, 5, 8 and 9. Buchert selects 2, 3, 6, 7 and gets stuck with the last pick. More on this later.
I'm in to win...
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ReplyDeleteAny reason we aren't taking the suggestion Gary had and hit from 2 tee boxes? You ask the players before hand where they want to hit and set up their handicaps based on that. Foursomes play mixed tee boxes all the time so its not like the course will discourage this. Hell one time playing TPC, the starter INSISTED the guy I was playing with play forward on the tees even though he hit the ball far but his handicap was high for playing from those tees (it was like a 10 lol). I can't see this slowing the round down any by doing this or giving any golfer an advantage. It actually might help out pace of play as your tee shots should theoretically be in the same landing area.
ReplyDeleteYour landing area is 85 yards to the left OB off the tee. I don't plan on going there.
ReplyDeleteSimple joke from a simple man. I do encourage feedback though as I'm curious to hear others points of view. The league has allowed players to play from different tee boxes before. I personally haven't experienced it so did it slow play down or give the player an advantage that we no longer want to offer this option?
ReplyDeleteAre you referring to Dan playing the tips and finishing near dead last every tournament? Because outside of that it has never been allowed. Should it be? You got everyone's attention. Let's watch the comments roll in...
ReplyDeleteWe almost teed off from the ladies tees this past weekend and still had a five hour round. I think the bigger problem is overall pace of play, rather than the tee boxes that we're playing. We need less practice swings, people ready to play their ball, less time looking for lost balls, etc. before the tees will make much of a difference. I have no problem with anyone teeing it forward and playing from two sets of tees as a group, but I don't think that will solve the slow play issues.
ReplyDeleteMike is incorrectly attempting to relate "pace of play" with his own personal request to move up tee boxes. What he's really asking is this:
ReplyDelete"How many people will complain if he is the only person in a 12-man field playing 400 yards shorter?"
If I had to guess... there wouldn't be a ton of "public" complaints until he won a bunch of events or started winning long drives with a 40 yard advantage. To his point, his handicap is now almost a 30 index. So if anyone wants to weigh in... please do. A few guys have told me they don't care if he moves up.
One last thing on the pace of play issue: last week was really the first time I've ever seen one of OUR groups cause a terribly slow round. And it was the 63rd tournament in league history. This shouldn't be anything a little public teasing can't fix.
I'm fine with Gorecki moving up. I think there needs to be a handicap limit on who can move up or move back (Over 28/Under 10)?
ReplyDeleteI don't care about him moving up. I like Darren's idea about possibly setting max/min handicaps for teeing it forward or playing back tees. I don't think a player should be eligible for long drive or greenies if they tee it forward. I also agree about pace of play not being a huge issue. Since we play on weekend mornings we don't exactly have wide open courses. We're almost always waiting on other groups and will continue to do so. That being said, there are a bunch of you who lack situational awareness on and off the golf course but I'm too old and lazy to try and fix all of you.
ReplyDeleteEveryone is in for long drives and greenies. It's far too much of a hassle to start excluding people based on their tees.
ReplyDeleteSo if you all are OK with Mike moving up... then he has an advantage over you in those areas. The point should be that he's moving up because he NEEDS to move up, thus making everything an even playing field.
Just like the "pace of play" issue, this is kinda new to us. Outside of Eaglebrooke and now Fox Hollow, there hasn't really been any debate over the tees we play. We just coincidentally are playing those courses back to back.
Basically what I'm hearing: play wherever you want. USGA handicaps are designed to allow people to play mixed tee boxes. For next week I'm assuming everyone is on the WHITES except the Gorecki's who will be on the GOLDS. If anyone else wants to change their tees let me know. No changing allowed the day of the event for obvious administrative reasons.
Also about Darren's handicap limit idea... it's not that simple. Darryl is a 22.8 handicap. That's better than Geoff, JW and Tall Mike. However, Darryl SHOULD be moving up based on how far he drives the ball, while the other three should not.
ReplyDeleteYou can't just put a number on it and have it work for all situations.
Numbers work in every situation (said the accountant)....... Seriously though, with a 22.8 handicap you shouldn't be allowed to move up. I think the min/max idea is a good one.
ReplyDeleteI'm in..If we play mixed tees do the people from the back always have to tee off first? For safety reasons I assume so....however for a tricky course this is a big disadvantage if 4-5 people elect to play off the front tees. Last week I changed my club selection a few times after seeing where people's ball landed. Perhaps we can trial it and then make a call on it? I have no problem with Goreicki playing off the front tees but it would be insane if a long hitter like tall mike played the front.
ReplyDeleteRegarding slow play, the main issue I saw was that players were not tracking their balls off the tee, when you go OB, hit water or a bad spot of course we all help looking for it but when the ball is only going into rough you should know within a few yards where it landed especially when it didn't go very far. It shouldn't take four people looking for a ball because players didn't bother tracking it
Numbers work if you use the correct ones. Handicap is an indication of how good your entire game is. But what tees you pick is really based on how far you hit the ball off the tee (to clear forced carry), and what clubs you use for approaches. You can't tell me Darryl, who drives the ball about 200 on average, can compete with Tall Mike who can hit it about 280.
ReplyDeleteAll of this is good discussion. But it's exactly why I've never allowed mixed tees in the past.
As for Dave's question... yes, people playing back always have to tee off first. It's a safety issue and pace of play issue. Sure this could create even MORE disadvantages. And again, that's why I never wanted split tees.
We'll see how it goes I guess.
I drive the ball about 200 on average and I'm not moving up. Daryl should not move up.
ReplyDeleteI am fine with giving it a shot. I think this course will have one of the biggest discrepancies in distance, so if it actually works out we shouldn't have any major problems moving forward.
ReplyDeleteI'm still going to allow Darryl to move up if he wants next week (assuming he's even playing). But I'm marking this down as the first objection to someone OTHER than Gorecki Jr. moving up.
ReplyDeleteOne of his assumptions is that the members of this league wouldn't have an issue making a league-wide rule that anyone can play any tees. But so far I've seen Darren, Faz, Dave and myself say that's not the case.
Basically... everyone is so afraid of disadvantages (in score, greenies, long drives, etc) that they'd RATHER us all play the same tees. Go figure.
Hey Darren... In your opinion, has Gorecki EVER been so good at golf that you wouldn't allow him to move up next week? Because based on your arbitrary numbers, he wouldn't have been allowed to until March of this year. Prior to that his handicap was in the 24-26 range for years.
ReplyDeleteGet that weak accounting logic out of here! Haha
This is stupid. Is that helpful?
ReplyDeleteLet's all play from the same tees and play faster. Problem solved.
ReplyDeleteGorecki can play wherever he wants as long as I don't have to look at his rash anymore. I would hope that everyone can afford to lose a dollar or two if Gorecki so happens to find a green and/or fairway.
ReplyDeleteI have to check the wifes schedule, but I hope to play fox hollow.
I'll put you in, Dan. Let me know if that changes.
ReplyDeleteCheck out this interesting fact about handicaps and how they should work for different player skill levels...http://www.usga.org/Handicapping/handicapping-101/the-great-equalizer-25498.html
ReplyDeleteI have no problem with playing different tee boxes. I think over the course of a season that the side bets will even out...and I'd love to see the higher handicap players recording lower scores so that their handicaps will plummet like the Baron's did and allow us lower handicappers a chance at the Cup too!
Regarding slow play last week, since I was a part of the problem myself (bad eyes not able to watch where balls go), I want to remind everyone that we were waiting off and on during the first 9 holes (the easy holes) until we fell behind on #10 in the fairway...no doubt that we needed to pick up the pace but this was an unfamiliar course to all of us, not to mention the difficulty of more hazzards than usual and deep rough...taking us maybe 15 minutes longer than it should of to play the back nine. The same fate awaits us all at Fox Hollow, which I have played and will also produce a 5 hr. round...bring lots of sunscreen!
Just a reminder why this league was established, it’s to have fun playing golf with friends. If Mike and Darryl want to play from the forward tees, it shouldn’t be an issue with the league. There are no DPT league rules that dictates that we all have to play from the same tees. If a player’s handicap allows for mix tees, then they should play from whatever tees they choose; with a week’s notice prior to the tournament(Administrative reasons). #Rule14
ReplyDeleteInteresting link... but it only references match-play and how a course calculates the individual hole handicaps. I actually didn't know how this process worked, and it explains why Southern Hills' handicaps SEEM jacked up (18 being rated fairly low). However, none of this has anything to do with the "allowing players to tee it forward" issue.
ReplyDeleteSo back to that topic. Under DPT Rule 13... here's the verdict:
We're going to allow people to move forward if they want. Hopefully nobody abuses it (Rule 14) and only moves forward if they truly feel they need to. On the flip side, if long hitters think they'll have more fun moving back (ie: hitting more drivers), then so be it. Let me know!
For our next event, I still currently have everyone playing the WHITE tees except for Gorecki who is on the GOLDS. Darryl hasn't officially registered yet.
Everyone is still in for greenies and long drives. Dan and Gary made some good comments on that issue. Also, if Gorecki is a teebox (or two) in front of Faz on a par 3... they'll probably still be using the same club. So you can argue that it's "fair."
In the near future I'll be testing out some Google Forms to help streamline our "registration" process. It'll also shed light on how handicaps are affected by the various tee boxes. Spoiler alert: not much. Which proves handicap index is a TERRIBLE way to determine what tees you should play. Spoiler alert #2: the best way is driving distance.
As the league grows it's more difficult to cater to individual requests. But the group discussion and opinions are very much needed and appreciated. It gets us involved and ultimately makes the league better. I think we'll see this with the "pace of play" concerns. As Gary mentioned, Fox Hollow is going to be difficult. But watch how many "slow" people make a conscious effort to speed up. You'll probably be pleasantly surprised, and it's all because of discussions like this one.
I'll play the golds. Ha
ReplyDeleteSounds good. I'll move up with you.
ReplyDeleteWell I asked for your comments/thoughts and it appears the majority of you chimed in. I appreciate it and I agree with the comments reminding us the point of this league is to have fun with our group. So make fun of my driving, my rashes, hell my game in general, I do enjoy (most of) your company and hope to improve my game and driving distance the more we play.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Buchert's initial comments. Pace of play is mainly due to reasons other than which tee box you use. Gorecki, I could care less which tees you swing from until you win back to back weeks lol. I've been trying to reduce my practice swings, but my pace is mostly directed by whether I hit my ball in the fairway or if I can't find it around the sidelines. My depth perception is terrible so when other people keep eyes on my ball it really helps me out. If everyone pays a little more attention, is ready to hit when they should be, and walks to their ball separately when possible, things will speed up quickly.
ReplyDeleteAlso, if the cart lady would stop slacking we could have sub 4 hr rounds. In semi-serious fashion, do try to be ready to buy drinks/snacks, pay and get out of there with the cart lady...which, I know, is tough to do when the bitch only shows up once per round.