Adam got his first career victory yesterday, demolishing the field in what was a pretty difficult day at the usually subdued Buffy Creek. Wind and bumpy greens got the better of most the field. A wall of water drenched us with only a few holes remaining. And as predicted, the base tees weren't playing anywhere close to 6,400.
Adam apparently got the putter working, which paired well on a course with little danger of spraying the ball. While winning the Skins Game usually doesn't equate to a lot of earnings, in his case he win 13 of 18 skins for a tournament high $52. Immediately spending some of that on a "good pitcher" after shooting -10 net.
Eight strokes behind you'll find Gorecki and Buchert. Casey was close to getting solo 2nd but he loves ejecting on the final hole of his rounds.
Brendan was probably the biggest winner, earning $48 from skins and keeping himself on pace to beat out Dave for the final (hypothetical) Rapture spot. Both won't be able to make the standings, but if they both play Week 3 they'll have 9 events and the tie-breaker would be their average points. We'll see... it's getting pretty tense out there knowing we're going to leave someone behind.
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Speaking of, updated Rapture standings, as a few people finally made the big board:
1 - Chandler
2 - Gary
3 - Reid
4 - Faz
5 - JW
6 - Gorecki
7 - Darren
8 - MikeHo
9 - Adam
10 - Robbie
11 - Danny
12 - Geoff
13 - Tall Mike
14 - Big John
15 - Katie
Below are those not on the list. I'm including rounds played and avg World Rankings points:
16 - Dave (9 / 85.0)
17 - Brendan (8 / 138.6)
18 - Troy (1 / 7.5)
Everything locks after our next event, which is in two weeks. Enjoy the time off.
The way the skins are calculated seems strange. If my course handicap is 18, i’m getting a stroke on every hole. If Gary’s Is 10, he gets a stroke on the 10 hardest holes, also. Leaving the other 8 holes with me getting a stroke and not Gary. Making a Gary 0, and me 8, changes that completely. Why is it done that way? It seems if the skins were done through the app, I’d get 18 and Gary would get 10, no? Serious question.
ReplyDeleteIt's that way because it's a competition against the "best" player in your group, in this case Gary. You "need" 8 more strokes than him, and should only get those on the 8 holes designated by the course in order of the gap between scratch and bogey golfers.
ReplyDeleteIf skins were done through the app it would be the same way, since you'd only be an 8, not an 18. Gary would be set to scratch (0).
It wouldn't make sense to give you zero advantage over Gary on holes handicapped 1 through 10, but then give you an advantage on the EASIER holes handicapped 11 through 18. You "need" that advantage on the harder holes.
People get caught up on the stroke-play handicaps in the app. I've heard people say "ugh I'm not stroking on this hole." But in 18-hole stroke play, the hole handicaps don't matter. Only in match games like Skins or Best Ball etc does each individual hole's handicap need to be considered. And in all cases, you stroke off the lowest handicapped player (ie: Gary is 0 and you're 8).
Another way to think of this...
ReplyDeleteLet’s say Danny (32) plays Gorecki (24) who has moved up to the osteoporosis tees, and for the sake of argument we give them full handicap allowance. Danny is only 8 strokes worse than Gorecki who has moved up 600 or so yards. Should Danny get his strokes in Match Play (or Skins, which is a form of Match Play) on the 8 “hardest” holes? Many of which are long par 4s?
Or would you just dot the Hell out of the card... giving Gorecki one stroke on 12 holes and two strokes on 6 holes... while giving Danny one stroke on 4 holes but 2 on 14... effectively shifting the advantage to handicapped holes #7 through #14? Some of those being easy par 4s and 5s
It’s much easier to net it out making Gorecki play as “scratch,” giving Danny the strokes on the most difficult 8 holes.
Except gorecki is also shitty and should get strokes on the hardest holes, based on the course handicap. But in this scenario, not shitty enough to get strokes on the 8 easiest holes, like the shittier, aforementioned Danny. The hard holes are hard for golfers at both handicap levels, but the "easy" holes are easy for the better player and just as difficult for the higher handicapper, unless of course he's shitty enough to get TWO strokes on the hardest holes. So, the way it's done still seems flawed.
ReplyDeleteNot sure why my name was dragged in on this argument/example but I'm gonna stay clear of it.
ReplyDeleteWhat I would like to discuss is perhaps the board to review the skins being rolled over for this event. I can understand in match play or fourball a hole is halved because those 2 golfers or a team member shot an equal (net) score. But with this recent 4some skins game rules, a individual golfer who performed terrible on a hole at times ends up getting awarded the skin on that hole because it rolled over due to other golfers playing it better. When we did the higher and lower handicap (2 tiered) skins game a few seasons back, I don't believe we rolled over skins so just curious if anyone recalls the reasoning rolling over skins was instituted.
Also I too was disappointed in the course conditions for the second straight week. I know the commish likes to search out deals and keep the greens fees average close to the same each season so we should come to expect subpar conditions at times when playing these budget friendly public courses for a few events each season.
Despite the physical and weather related conditions we experienced Sunday, I was surprised to see 15 birdies collected by the league with the majority being earned on the back 9 when the weather worsened. I'm curious if there's a way to check what courses we regularly play have produced the most birdies/eagles? 15 has to be near the top if not the most (excluding memorial events). Faz, any easy way to research/confirm?
Trust me, it's more fair if the shittier golfer gets the strokes on the harder holes. This is because hole handicaps don't really mean "HARD" or "EASY."
ReplyDeleteCourses are supposed to pull member's scores, per hole, every handful of years. After they collect hundreds of hole-by-hole rounds, they compile two buckets of scores: 1) SCRATCH golfers and 2) BOGEY golfers (there are precise definitions for each, so most rounds are just thrown out because they aren't in those buckets).
They then average the score of each hole in each bucket. So the first hole (a par 4) could have an average of 3.8 for SCRATCH golfers and 4.8 for BOGEY golfers. The difference in those averages are obviously 1.0.
They do this for EVERY hole. The biggest gap in SCRATCH vs. BOGEY average is the #1 handicapped hole. The largest difference of the holes on the opposite side of the course becomes the #2 handicapped. Then the 2nd largest difference on the side with the #1 handicap becomes #3... etc etc...
This is why you convert the best player in a match to SCRATCH. You want your strokes to happen on the holes with the biggest gap between good and bad players. Gorecki IS also shitty, but in a match (or Skins) game his shittyness is only relative to those in his group. He doesn't need strokes on the hard holes compared to a worse golfer, in this case Danny.
Gorecki... you're arguing against the very definition of a Skins game. In this history of this format, players can get bailed out on holes. That's the point. We got rid of the 2-teir system because it wasn't exciting and the consequences couldn't be seen within a group. You could make a net birdie, and some fool 2 groups ahead of you might have net eagle. You'd never know until you got into the clubhouse. Skins games should be GROUP SPECIFIC. We didn't do roll-overs because tiers were too large, and thus only a handful of skins were ever reward. This format change now pays out all 18 skins. Request denied.
ReplyDeleteYou also played a practice round at Buffy Creek a few days ago and reported that "the fairways and greens are good." Clearly you don't know what "good" is. But yes, we have a budget that we are going to continue to stick to. Too many complaints about how expensive University Park was last season...
Unsurprisingly I agree with and support everything Chandler has said about the logic behind strokes and the reasoning for the skins format change...and not just because it was my idea.
ReplyDeleteAlso, I track the number of birdies we make per event but doing an apples to apples comparison is tough because not only do our field sizes change week to week, so do the actual players themselves. It’s tough to compare an event where several lower handicappers missed with an event where several higher handicappers missed. That being said, I’ll take a look and see what I can find. I also track the number of double pars we make per event. I prefer to report the depressing stats to make sure we don’t lose sight of just how god awful we are at golf.
I looked up some birdie stats for you Gorecki.
ReplyDeleteYou've played 1,422 holes in league history (not counting WD rounds).
You have made 6 birdies (0.4%).
We made 13 birdies the last time we played Buffy Creek (from the golds I believe because it was a Memorial???). 19 birdies and an eagle at the last Countryway event. 17 birdies at Freedom Fairways. 14 at Cheval and Champions Gate, 13 at Scepter O/F and 12 at I/O, 12 at Orange County National.
ReplyDeleteWe made ONE at one of the Bloomingdale events.
I agree and commend the board for changing it to the 4some skin groupings in lieu of the tiers as it more rewarding knowing immediately if you won a skin. Just wondering if it was debated about the roll over change. Instead of awarding 18 skins you can divide the group earnings by actual number of skins won (not rolled over ones). So at the end of the round each 4some may have a different amount each skin is worth but it’s divided amongst the true amount of “skins won”.
ReplyDeleteAnd thanks for birdie/eagle research. I see why the results would vary based on participation. Surprised to see cheval on there. Not surprised fewest was Bloomingdale lol.
Geoff go work your residence status and get us back on Cheval! I’ll continue to reach out to ChampionsGate but like Esplanade they got popular so they aren’t as receptive to group rate discounts.
The Board wants the roll-overs. Unanimously.
ReplyDeleteGoogle “how to play a skins game.” Many articles will explain to you why roll-overs exist.
Also... stop cheating on the course, Mr Pool Pump
ReplyDeleteGorecki is mad that he beat me gross and net and I made more money.
ReplyDeleteI like that this used to be the Geoff Skins Game and Geoff doesn’t know how handicaps work.
ReplyDeleteI know how the handicaps work. My point is; making the lowest handicapper a 0 and going off of that person, changes the distribution of stroked holes and thus skins. Versus everyone playing their course handicap.
ReplyDeleteYeah. It changes it to the way it's intended to be done.
ReplyDeleteYou're still getting your entire course handicap... in the STROKE PLAY portion of the event.
But in Match Play (and Skins, which is basically a form of Match Play), you always play off the lowest handicap set to 0.
And to be clear, I 100% understand what you're saying. I'm just telling you how the USGA sees it. They think you should get your strokes (difference between you and the low man of the group) on the holes with the biggest gap between SCRATCH and BOGEY golfers.
ReplyDeleteLet's explore this further. Pretend you are a 17 handicap, playing a match against Gorecki who cheats his way to an 18 handicap. You owe him ONE stroke.
USGA Method - Gorecki gets that stroke on the #1 handicap hole, a 405 yard par 4. It's a difficult hole. You're both probably going to fuck it up. But because the hole is hard, the outcomes can vary wildly. You can play it well, or hope for some epic Gorecki Pool Pump ejection. Birdies might not be likely but scores of 4 to 9 are definitely in play for both of you. Many ways for you to win, tie or lose the hole... DESPITE Gorecki getting a stroke.
Geoff Method - Gorecki gets the stroke on the #18 handicap hole, a 110 yard par 3 to a huge green with minimum hazards. The hole is so easy, you're probably both going to make a par. At worse a bogey. It's literally pitch-and-putt. You're at a huge disadvantage unless you make a birdie or Gorecki has a Chris Guest meltdown on the putting surface.
If you think the "Geoff Method" makes more sense, then how would you explain it if your course handicaps were 18 and 19 respectively (just ONE stroke higher for each of you). In that scenario, both the USGA and Geoff Method's give the stroke on the #1 handicap hole. But the difference between two golfers playing against each other who are 17&18 vs 18&19 are negligible. So why the HUGE difference in the difficulty of the hole where a stroke is given?
If the handicaps were 19 and 20, the Geoff Method now awards the stroke on the #2 handicap hole. It's always a moving target... without any true constant.
It's not the Geoff method. I was just doing the math based on course handicaps and it didn't seem to add up. If that's the way it's always done and is supposed to be done, then it doesn't really matter. I was just curious as to WHY it was done that way. I honestly don't think it matters with high-handicappers if they're getting strokes on "easy" or "hard" holes because we/they can fuck up or play well on ANY hole, regardless of difficulty. It probably wouldn't make much difference if the stroked holes were picked at random.
ReplyDeleteGeoff Method!
ReplyDeleteGeoff Meothod*
ReplyDeleteGeoff method is bad. The way the league has always done it is good.
ReplyDeleteCan someone summarize the above, I feel asleep twice reading it
ReplyDeleteNo. Just trust your government is doing it right and don’t ask questions.
ReplyDelete